Thursday, August 3, 2017

Responding to the masked arab Reddit Trolls

while I’m working on my article regarding Ben Shapiro let us take the time and see a couple of Reddit forms attributed to me, a couple of Muslims asked me to respond to them so let’s check now one of the forums.
a couple of months ago a bunch of Reddit forms was made about me from the masked Arab fans, the masked Arab himself didn’t participate much in the conversation and he let his goons defend him for his ideas, today we are gonna look at a couple of responses that were made about me that these goons misrepresented and completely ignored it altogether

In the majority of my work I remain professional, this time I will result to insults like how the guy in the post insults me continually
Let us observe the following post since it has the most aggressive attack seen on me

the original poster makes the following statements
“Is The Masked Arab and Sharif Ghabir reliable enough to disprove Islam?Question/Discussion (self.exmuslim)
submitted 3 months ago by No_so_lost
I posted a subreddit a few days ago Do I have to be a scholar to prove or disprove something
I talked about it on of TMA's videos about the whale that carries the earth on its back. Then I got this link to a blog called AZ's Blog
Where he refutes both of them for every video he makes. I still haven't read them well enough (but I will). I just wanted your opinion on this guy and his sources to see if I should follow these two guys and believe what they're saying.”

now one guy in the thread decided to go all the way and attack my response to the masked Arab regarding Friday prayer similarity with the Jewish Sabbath
the main response comes from a guy called “life-is-absurd”
life-is-absurd new User 35 points 3 months ago* 
Then I got this link to a blog called AZ's Blog. Where he refutes both of them for every video he makes.
Look, bro, there are millions of muslims out there thinking they refute critics of Islam everyday. If we have to deal with each single one of them, there wouldn't be any time left to do anything else. I'll just examine one of his criticisms on The Masked Arab and show the template here.
In one of his videos, The Masked Arab talked about the famous 5:32.
Anyone can read this article first: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/If_Anyone_Slew_a_Person
Let's see the verse, The Masked Arab's thoughts and this AZ guy's response:
On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
The Masked Arab rationally and logically says that this verse talks about Jews, or children of Israel. Allah says he's very clear in the Quran numerous times. If he wanted, he could've said hanif or muslims. Because muslims regard Abraham and other Jewish prophets as hanif, person that has the religion of Islam, i.e. believing in a single god alone. Therefore Quran uses the word hanif for Abraham but sees Jews, or Children of Israel as people that left Allah's original religion. That's why Allah always curse Children of Israel in the Quran. So, when it comes to 5:32, muslims suddenly try to understand "Children of Israel" as if Allah is talking to muslims in this verse.
Let's see this AZ guy's response:
The masked arab starts with citing verse 5:32, where he states that muslims will cite this verse and expect the problem to go away, I’m not sure why the masked arab think this is the Only verse Muslims will cite as counter argument for the typical polemicist claim of condoning killing innocent civilians in the quran, but let us deal with it
What? What polemicist? You just read the damn verse. It says Children of Israel right?
Let's continue with AZ guy's criticism on The Masked Arab about 5:32.
the masked arab start with the argument that the God of the Quran instructed to the Israelites instructions that was not given to the muslims, and he cites the Sabbath as an example, although muslims don’t have official day of rest where they do prayer and refrain from work that is called Sabbath the masked arab magically forgot about the Friday prayer where is extremely similar to the Sabbath that the Israelites observe, which is known as Yaum Al-Ju’m, literally means the Friday , where muslims gather in a mosque to pray in regular calendar it’s also regarded as the seventh day in the week, How did the masked arab brushed this fact off is beyond me, although to be fair an instruction to jews is not always obligatory on muslims, But that depends on what type of instruction it’s, are the muslims obligated to pray just like the jews? No, are they required to prostrate and celebrate the same holidays as the jews? No, are they obligated to use the same terms as the jews use? no, but what about moral and political obligation? We have not seen any difference between the commandments the jews are obligated to follow and the commandments the muslims are obligated to follow, so how the hell did the masked arab used a Jewish holiday to make his argument that verse 5:32 is not obligated on the muslims?
What a guy, look at these words. Typical muslim apologist. Although Quran clearly makes difference when it comes to muslim, hanif or children of Israel, this guy tries to bind Friday prayer with Jewish saturday sabbath. How? By using any Quran verse, or sahih hadith, or sirah? No, just wishful thinking. "I mean, friday seems so similar to jewish sabbath, amirite fellas?" Yeah right, you're a genius. However, there is no evidence for his claim. Even if he has, then why did Muhammad separated Jewish sabbath from his friday prayers? He could've get on the wagon of sabbath just like he stole many aspects of Jewish religion. He could've said, "sabbath is the day of Allah, now we muslims are observing it as well." But no, he decided another day for his religion. Allah says in Quran that he chose Islam as a religion for muslims. He clearly makes a difference between a Jew, a Christian and a Muslim. This guy try to blur the differences Muhammad put. If he lived in Muhammad's era, Muhammad probably would've killed him because he was a hypocrite and a liar.
Also, "no difference between Jewish commandments and Muslim ones"? What? Just open up the Jewish bible and see the shit ton of rules Yahweh put out for Jews to obey. Also the commandment for muslims is in 5:33, the very next verse. Let me explain it clearly by summarizing 5:32-33.
Now 5:32 has some problems:
1 - Like I said verse clearly talks about Children of Israel. Allah talks about like it was a something happened in the past. Any rational objective reading will show that.
2 - I highlighted the word "mischief in the land." Even if we accept this guy's statement and see this verse as a command for muslims, he is in trouble for this very words. What is spreading mischief in the land? Apostasy, criticizing Muhammad,(for example like I always say he's a narcissist and a psychopath), or debating with muslims and convincing them to leave Islam etc. Can these acts be considered as spreading mischief in the land? Could be. What did Muhammad do? He clearly let his followers kill the critics of Islam and himself. So, if you spread mischief in the land by criticizing Islam, calling him psychopath, then you can be killed and 5:32 suddenly becomes barbaric as fuck.
3 - This verse speaks as if Allah once said these things. But where? Probably in the books of Moses, right? Nope. Where? Actually Jews never had this kind of commandment. One Jewish rabbi that wrote a commentary on Genesis interpreted the story of Cain and Abel in this manner: if you kill a Jew, you also kill his future offsprings, because that person could've make lots of babies. This is a commentary. And it's in the talmud.
4 - Now the exciting part. If this verse is for Jews(and it's in the Talmud so Allah was pretty stupid to think he gave this commandment), what is the order for muslims? It's 5:33.
Let's see 5:33.
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter
Now this verse destroys AZ guy's "muslims and jews had same commandments" bullshit. Nope, Jews were commanded 5:32. Muslims were commanded 5:33. If you read the verse, it clearly says "Allah and his Messenger" in 5:33, making a very crucial difference from 5:32 and "Children of Israel" written there.
And now punishment for "spreading mischief in the land" becomes clear: execution, crucifixion, cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile. Or exile? "Whew, thanks Muhammad I thought your barbaric fuckheads were gonna kill me brutally. You added or exile so you saved my life." LOL. Yeah, right. Now it becomes clear why Mashal Khan and people like him are brutally killed. They spread mischief in the land by criticizing prophet or Islam. That's how and why ISIS kill people that criticize Islam in the lands they rule. And that's what basically The Masked Arab says in his video. This is like 2+2=4. The verse is clear, and ISIS takes the verse and uses it.
So, what does this long ass post shows? It shows that just one single paragraph shows this AZ guy's bullshit. And what does he post next:
But let us see now what major Tafsir scholars said in regards to this verse...
Yeah, let's quickly escape into the books of scholars and tafsirs. Because you know, verse is clear as day, 5:33 clearly makes the distinction between Jews and muslims. How do we answer? Let's spam them with hours of long commentaries and opinions and such. Classic muslim apologist tactic.
OP, or anyone reading this wall of text: don't fall for this bullshit. Always demand Quran verse, sahih hadith and sirah first. Stick to these three muslim sources. Scholars can suck my dick. They come second, their opinions are not as important as main Islamic sources.
And like I do, know for certain that this religion is fake as fuck. I'm confident, so I don't hesitate and see through the bullshit these apologists made. That doesn't mean I don't consider apologists' arguments or I ignorantly follow The Masked Arab or like. No, I just use my logic and always check Quran, hadith and sirah first. That's all.”

Let us now deconstruct his arguments and “responses”
“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
The Masked Arab rationally and logically says that this verse talks about Jews, or children of Israel. Allah says he's very clear in the Quran numerous times. If he wanted, he could've said hanif or muslims. Because muslims regard Abraham and other Jewish prophets as hanif, person that has the religion of Islam, i.e. believing in a single god alone. Therefore Quran uses the word hanif for Abraham but sees Jews, or Children of Israel as people that left Allah's original religion. That's why Allah always curse Children of Israel in the Quran. So, when it comes to 5:32, muslims suddenly try to understand "Children of Israel" as if Allah is talking to muslims in this verse.
Let's see this AZ guy's response:
The masked arab starts with citing verse 5:32, where he states that muslims will cite this verse and expect the problem to go away, I’m not sure why the masked arab think this is the Only verse Muslims will cite as counter argument for the typical polemicist claim of condoning killing innocent civilians in the quran, but let us deal with it
What? What polemicist? You just read the damn verse. It says Children of Israel right?”
you didn’t bother to learn what Polemicist means don’t you? this goon thinks that I’m dodging the masked arab argument and call him a polemicist, listen, polemicist is someone who criticizes his opponent position, this is the clear opposite of an apologist, as I’m an apologist for my position, I’m also a polemicist to his position as well, similar to the masked arab, he is an apologist to his position, but a polemist to mine? is that clear enough?

And as for hanif, really? You do realize nowhere is the word hanif mentioned in the quran do you? if this verse was revealed only to the jews why did God say “ We decreed upon the Children of Israel” meaning we wrote to them, why not “and we revealed to the children of Israel”   no, of course, you don’t, also, later on, we will see how this verse is also appropriate to muslims

Now as for the verse yes I read it but this goon completely cut my refutation even before it started and makes this absurd comment without even daring to contextualize and let me continue in my argument, my statement shows that this is not the only verse muslims cite to provide the argument that islam condemn targeting innocent civilians, that is my main point here, but seems what I’m dealing here is a toddler with an iq of 5

let us continue in reading the part that he so deceptively cut off

“Let's continue with AZ guy's criticism on The Masked Arab about 5:32.
the masked arab start with the argument that the God of the Quran instructed to the Israelites instructions that was not given to the muslims, and he cites the Sabbath as an example, although muslims don’t have official day of rest where they do prayer and refrain from work that is called Sabbath the masked arab magically forgot about the Friday prayer where is extremely similar to the Sabbath that the Israelites observe, which is known as Yaum Al-Ju’m, literally means the Friday , where muslims gather in a mosque to pray in regular calendar it’s also regarded as the seventh day in the week, How did the masked arab brushed this fact off is beyond me, although to be fair an instruction to jews is not always obligatory on muslims, But that depends on what type of instruction it’s, are the muslims obligated to pray just like the jews? No, are they required to prostrate and celebrate the same holidays as the jews? No, are they obligated to use the same terms as the jews use? no, but what about moral and political obligation? We have not seen any difference between the commandments the jews are obligated to follow and the commandments the muslims are obligated to follow, so how the hell did the masked arab used a Jewish holiday to make his argument that verse 5:32 is not obligated on the muslims?
What a guy, look at these words. Typical muslim apologist. Although Quran clearly makes difference when it comes to muslim, hanif or children of Israel, this guy tries to bind Friday prayer with Jewish saturday sabbath. How?”

Wow, the more I continue to read his “criticism” the more I see he has an IQ of a toddler, where did I said Islamic Friday prayer and Jewish Sabbath are the same. I said they are similar in obligation
although muslims don’t have official day of rest where they do prayer and refrain from work that is called Sabbath the masked arab magically forgot about the Friday prayer where is extremely similar to the Sabbath that the Israelites observe, which is known as Yaum Al-Ju’m, literally means the Friday, where muslims gather in a mosque to pray in regular calendar it’s also regarded as the seventh day of the week”
NOTE: the word “similar” and the highlighted in blod words meaning it holds similar application to the jewish Sabbath, this is not a “bind” where I try to state that the jewish Sabbath and Islamic Jum’a is virtually the same, this is similar to how muslims gather in mosque and attune the Friday reading of quran, jews gather in synagogue and read tawrah for example the safar taurah is being read on Shabbat during the morning of the Sabbath, this is similar to muslims frieday recitation of quran, muslims also pray in mousques instead of indoors during jum’a similar to jewish Sabbath

the reason why I mentioned Friday is to point out that Muslims Do have similarities with jews, we will later look at the comment regarding the commandments

“By using any Quran verse, or sahih hadith, or sirah? No, just wishful thinking. "I mean, friday seems so similar to jewish sabbath, amirite fellas?" Yeah right, you're a genius. However, there is no evidence for his claim. Even if he has, then why did Muhammad separated Jewish sabbath from his friday prayers?”
beause muslims have to be distinguished from jews “genius” they need their own practices and prayers and rituals to not be conflicted with the jews and be their own hanaf, and I littraly stated that there are differens and I never tried to “bind” Friday with Sabbath let us read AGAIN what I said
Although muslims don’t have official day of rest where they do prayer and refrain from work that is called Sabbath”
here I made a clear distinction between Sabbath and Muslim Friday prayer, but this fool completely dodge this and his goons will later state “you are on fire” but let us go back to his question, is there clear evidence of similarities between Muslim Friday prayer and Jewish Sabbath? Yes
I never said Jewish Sabbath and muslim Friday are the same thing or identical, I said they have similarities
Even if we get to use Wikipedia (your own source)
“The principle of weekly Sabbath also exists in other beliefs. Examples include the Babylonian calendar, the Buddhist uposatha, the Islamic jumu'ah, and the Unification Church's Ahn Shi Il.”
Here Wikipedia your Own source (similar to wikiislam) state clearly that the concept of Jewish Sabbath have been adopted by other faiths
but then again this is Wikipedia, so yes he might then say “this is Wikipedia a doubtful source” ironic he actually used wikiisalam, let’s see what academic sources say about this
“Muḥammad’s choice of Friday as the Muslim day of communal worship was probably based on the pre-Islāmic function of Friday as market day, a natural occasion for dispersed local tribes to gather in a central location. The influence of the Jewish and Christian sabbath was also felt in the institutionalization of the Muslim Friday,”[1]
. This guy try to blur the differences Muhammad put. If he lived in Muhammad's era, Muhammad probably would've killed him because he was a hypocrite and a liar.”


Wow, so much strawman into one comment, where did I say Sabbath is the exact same as Friday prayer, and where did I blur the line between the two?


Let me now even cite my own comment that he took it out of context to refute him ones more 
“although to be fair an instruction to jews is not always obligatory on Muslims, that depends on what type of instruction it’s, are the muslims obligated to pray just like the jews? No, are they required to prostrate and celebrate the same holidays as the jews? No, are they obligated to use the same terms as the jews use? no, but what about moral and political obligation?”
 How much clear can it be? the statement above by me clearly state that Muslims do have distinct differences between them and jews especially in Sabbath, keep in mind this pat “but what about moral and political obligation?” keep this quote in mind because we will come back to it

“Also, "no difference between Jewish commandments and Muslim ones"? What? Just open up the Jewish bible and see the shit ton of rules Yahweh put out for Jews to obey. Also the commandment for muslims is in 5:33, the very next verse. Let me explain it clearly by summarizing 5:32-33.”
Going back to my comment
but what about moral and political obligation”

 the comment regarding the commandments was related to the political and moral obligation, i.e how Muslims should behave in wars and what morals they should follow, no where did I said that what ever revealed to the jews by Yahweh is the same as revealed to the Muslims in Quran, we are talking about commandments such as worship the god alone (similar to what Muslims have) do not steel (similar to what Muslims have ) do not associate other gods with your god (similar to what Muslims have) the list goes on, what kind of a lunatic I’m dealing with here, you can’t read properly and he can’t quote properly, these are called the ten commandments

“I am the Lord your God.
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.” (Exodus 20:2)
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
“You shall not recognize other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.” (Exodus 20:3–4)
You shall not take the name of God in vain.
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.” (Exodus 20:7)
Remember and observe the Sabbath and keep it holy.
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant, your animal or your stranger within your gates.” (Exodus 20:8–10)
Honor your father and mother.
“Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.” (Exodus 20:12)
You shall not murder.
“You shall not murder.” (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not commit adultery.
“You shall not commit adultery.” (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not steal.
“You shall not steal.” (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not bear false witness.
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or house.
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” (Exodus 20:14)”

I can go on and on and on, the above ten commandments are very similar to many obligation god gives the Muslims in the Quran, Tawheed, adultery (Zina), punishment for theft, false witness and so on and so forth, can’t he read properly? the "commandments" I mentioned were in reference to the ten commandments

Let’s continue
“Now 5:32 has some problems:
1 - Like I said verse clearly talks about Children of Israel. Allah talks about like it was a something happened in the past. Any rational objective reading will show that.
2 - I highlighted the word "mischief in the land." Even if we accept this guy's statement and see this verse as a command for muslims, he is in trouble for this very words. What is spreading mischief in the land? Apostasy, criticizing Muhammad,(for example like I always say he's a narcissist and a psychopath), or debating with muslims and convincing them to leave Islam etc. Can these acts be considered as spreading mischief in the land? Could be. What did Muhammad do? He clearly let his followers kill the critics of Islam and himself. So, if you spread mischief in the land by criticizing Islam, calling him psychopath, then you can be killed and 5:32 suddenly becomes barbaric as fuck.
3 - This verse speaks as if Allah once said these things. But where? Probably in the books of Moses, right? Nope. Where? Actually Jews never had this kind of commandment. One Jewish rabbi that wrote a commentary on Genesis interpreted the story of Cain and Abel in this manner: if you kill a Jew, you also kill his future offsprings, because that person could've make lots of babies. This is a commentary. And it's in the talmud.
See here: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Parallelism:_Sanhedrin_37a
4 - Now the exciting part. If this verse is for Jews(and it's in the Talmud so Allah was pretty stupid to think he gave this commandment), what is the order for muslims? It's 5:33.”
1-no it’s not, as I have shown from the sources I provided which you ignored, ulama never stated with the general consensus that this is exclusive to the Jews
2-such red herring fallacy, how does that put me in trouble, the topic was do Muslims have a similar day to Jewish Sabbath? And does this verse apply to muslims aswel? the topic is Not how brutal this verse is
also mischief is exclusive to apostasy? Cite your damn evidence
3-another red herring fallacy, allah talks to the jews as they are familiar with their scripture, every time he speaks to them directly in the quran, and every time allah speaks to muslims about jews allah clearly shows that Muslims had clear knowledge at the time of islam of the tourah and it’s teachings, but anyways is this kid for serious?He even himself cite a source directly where this verse is similar to a quote from Talmud
“Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world.”
Source: Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:9; Yerushalmi Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin 37 (the very sources used by the guy who responded to me)

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter
Now this verse destroys AZ guy's "muslims and jews had same commandments" bullshit. Nope, Jews were commanded 5:32. Muslims were commanded 5:33. If you read the verse, it clearly says "Allah and his Messenger" in 5:33, making a very crucial difference from 5:32 and "Children of Israel" written there.

wow, the more I go down in your comment the more insulting your intellect appears, first at no point does this verse say “we revealed to the Muslims” it states that the punishment for those who wage war toward Allah and his messenger (wage war meaning self-defense)
this is in reference to the battles the prophet waged in self-defense and at no point does it state that this is a commandment revealed only to Muslims, hell where is your tafsirs, if you gonna make such claim at least provide some damn tafsirs, but no, what we are dealing with here is a toddler with an intellect of 10
let’s take a look at how Tabari tafsir view it that will slap some sense into him, in fact, what makes this funny is that the following tafsir not only affirms my position in the blog that 5:32 does apply to Muslims aswell but also puts historical context to it
هذا بـيان من الله عزّ ذكره عن حكم الفساد فـي الأرض الذي ذكره فـي قوله:
{ مِنْ أَجْلِ ذٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِيۤ إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَن قَتَلَ نَفْساً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي ٱلأَرْضِ }
[المائدة: 32] أعلـم عبـاده ما الذي يستـحقّ الـمفسد فـي الأرض من العقوبة والنكال، فقال تبـارك وتعالـى: لا جزاء له فـي الدنـيا إلا القتل والصلب وقطع الـيد والرجل من خلاف أو النفـي من الأرض، خزياً لهم وأما فـي الآخرة إن لـم يتب فـي الدنـيا فعذاب عظيـم.

ثم اختلف أهل التأويـل فـيـمن نزلت هذه الآية. فقال بعضهم: نزلت فـي قوم من أهل الكتاب، كانوا أهل موادعة لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، فنقضوا العهد وأفسدوا فـي الأرض، فعرّف الله نبـيه صلى الله عليه وسلم الـحكم فـيهم. ذكر من قال ذلك:

حدثنـي الـمثنى، قال: ثنا عبد الله بن صالـح، قال: ثنـي معاوية، عن علـيّ، عن ابن عبـاس، قوله: { إنَّـمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحارِبُونَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِـي الأرْضِ فَساداً } قال: كان قوم من أهل الكتاب بـينهم وبـين النبـيّ صلى الله عليه وسلم عهد وميثاق، فنقضوا العهد وأفسدوا فـي الأرض فخير الله رسوله، إن شاء أن يقتل وإن شاء أن يقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم من خلاف.”
Translation:
and this declaration by god on the mischief (remember how this guy called mischief apostasy? lets’ read what mischief here means) on land in the following verse :
“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land”
he was telling his slaves (allah) that those who spread mischief deserve punishment so god said “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;” (verse 33)
the people of interpretation differ regarding what this means so some of them said this mischief means this was revealed to the people of the book when they broke the treaty after they were people of who had agreement of peace then they broke it and spread mischief on the land so Allah messenger declared his judgment on them  so as it was said
Muthana told me said :Abdullah bin sallah said : mu’awia told me :from ali told me : from ibn Abbas : said regarding “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land” said there was people of the book who had a treaty with the prophet and they broke it and spread mischief so god revealed to his prophet that they are to be execution or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,.
now what about the other interpretation?
نزلت هذه الآية فـي الـمشركين، فمن تاب منهم من قبل أن تقدروا علـيه لـم يكن علـيه سبـيـل ولـيست تَـحْرز هذه الآية الرجل الـمسلـم من الـحدّ إن قتل أو أفسد فـي الأرض أو حارب الله ورسوله ثم لـحق بـالكفـار قبل أن يُقَدَر علـيه، لـم يـمنعه ذلك أن يقام فـيه الـحدّ الذي أصاب.”
Translation :
this verse was revealed on the polytheists before they were capable of their act this verse was revealed to the Muslims that those who spread mischief on the land or fight Allah and his messenger and followed the kuffar before he could if this didn’t prevent him he must provide the hud (punishment) for that”

Therefore, we have multiple interpretations
One is this was revealed to the people of the book who broke the treaty
And the other about those who joined the polytheist and instigated war on Muslims
Tabari give multiple other interpretations that I have not even dived into them

this verse not only destroy this child’s argument, but also proves that it's not connected to 5:33 in its second interpretation, and even if we get to accept the first interpretation it still refutes his argument that mischief means apostasy
The other one affirms my argument that this verse is not directly connected to 5:32

Now let’s accept his argument that this verse is indeed connected to 5:32, how does it still refute my argument? My argument is that Muslims have similar ideas that they share or commandments that they share with jews, how they hell does this verse refute what I said?
(to say that 5:33 is connected to 5:32, therefore, your argument that Muslims share similar ideas to jews is false) is a nonsequitr fallacy

Why this goon ignored my clear sources that say even if this verse mentions the Jews it’s still applicable to the Muslims

حُدثت عن الـحسين، قال: سمعت أبـا معاذ، قال: ثنـي عبـيد بن سلـيـمان، قال: سمعت الضحاك يقول فـي قوله: { مِنْ أجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنا علـى بَنِـي إسْرَائِيـلَ } يقول: من أجل ابن آدم الذي قتل أخاه ظلـماً"[1].

Translation:
Hussain Told us, said: I Heard aba Mu’ath said: ‘Ubaid bin Sulaiman said: I heard Dahak say: god says {Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel} says: this is in reference to the sun of Adam who killed his brother unjustly

So according to tafsir scholars and this narration, in particular, the reference to the children of Israel was in regards to an incident that happen to them, NOT that this commandment was exclusive to the jews

To claim that since the Israelis are mentioned here, therefore, this commandment is exclusive to the jews only is a non sequitur fallacy, if I was a judge and I was handed a case of murder between a man of a tribe named Quraish where a man killed another innocent brother of his tribe, then proclaim punishment of the murderer does this mean this punishment is exclusive only to the Quraish tribe?

However, some might say, “that is still not a good enough evidence, do you have explicit statement that this verse is applicable to the Muslims aswell from the tafsirs?” the answer is arguably Yes indeed it’s
Let us see a shocking statement that will drag the carpet from desperate masked Arab fans and from the masked Arab himself that will more likely refute even his entire video

"حدثنـي الـمثنى، قال: ثنا سويد بن نصر، قال: أخبرنا ابن الـمبـارك، عن سلام بن مسكين، قال: ثنـي سلـيـمان بن علـيّ الرَّبْعي، قال: قلت للـحسن: { مِنْ أجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَتَبْنا علـى بَنِـي إسْرَائِيـلَ أنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْساً بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ }... الآية، أهي لنا يا أبـا سعيد كما كانت لبنـي إسرائيـل؟ فقال: إي والذي لا إله غيره، كما كانت لبنـي إسرائيـل وما جعل دماء بنـي إسرائيـل أكرم علـى الله من دمائنا"[2] [3].

Translation:
Muthana told me: Swaid bin Nasir said: bin al-mubarak, from salam bin misken, said: Sulaiman bin Ali al-rubai’I said: to Hussain {Because of that, we decreed upon the Children of Israel} …. the verse, is it for us aba Sa’id just as it was for the people of Israel? He said: Yes, by the god in which there is no other god, just like how it was to the people of Israel, which didn’t make the blood of the people of israel more precious than ours”
but it seems I’m dealing with a toddler here, ignoring all my above-cited sources with footnotes and go on like a complete clown beating his chest declaring victory

and Now finally to his last poor attempt to spew away my sources lets us read these comments and if you are an honest none Muslim reading this, you will have to agree that this child makes some of the most pathetic excuses to ignore the tafsirs and sources his opponent provide
“And now punishment for "spreading mischief in the land" becomes clear: execution, crucifixion, cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile. Or exile? "Whew, thanks Muhammad I thought your barbaric fuckheads were gonna kill me brutally. You added or exile so you saved my life." LOL. Yeah, right. Now it becomes clear why Mashal Khan and people like him are brutally killed. They spread mischief in the land by criticizing prophet or Islam. That's how and why ISIS kill people that criticize Islam in the lands they rule. And that's what basically The Masked Arab says in his video. This is like 2+2=4. The verse is clear, and ISIS takes the verse and uses it.
So, what does this long ass post shows? It shows that just one single paragraph shows this AZ guy's bullshit. And what does he post next:
But let us see now what major Tafsir scholars said in regards to this verse...
Yeah, let's quickly escape into the books of scholars and tafsirs. Because you know, verse is clear as day, 5:33 clearly makes the distinction between Jews and muslims. How do we answer? Let's spam them with hours of long commentaries and opinions and such. Classic muslim apologist tactic.
OP, or anyone reading this wall of text: don't fall for this bullshit. Always demand Quran verse, sahih hadith and sirah first. Stick to these three muslim sources. Scholars can suck my dick. They come second, their opinions are not as important as main Islamic sources.
And like I do, know for certain that this religion is fake as fuck. I'm confident, so I don't hesitate and see through the bullshit these apologists made. That doesn't mean I don't consider apologists' arguments or I ignorantly follow The Masked Arab or like. No, I just use my logic and always check Quran, hadith and sirah first. That's all.””
Honestly, I do not believe for a second what I just read
First, the word mischief was already explained
second he starts to act like a 12-year-old rambling about how “barbaric” Muhammad is, if there is anything barbaric it’s your use of logic, you slaughtered logic and critical thinking, so many strawman

“So, what does this long ass post shows? It shows that just one single paragraph shows this AZ guy's bullshit. And what does he post next:”
you didn’t even read or responded to the entire paragraph, you only replied to the first 4 lines and made that hole “refutation” based on these 4 lines, you don’t even know what paragraph means
red herrings in just one paragraph in response just 4 lines of my blog, yes that is correct this gone dedicated all these to “refute” 4 lines in my blog
ISIS takes this verse?. Yes nice claim, please show the evidence
But the most socking statement of all his statements is the following
“Yeah, let's quickly escape into the books of scholars and tafsirs. Because you know, verse is clear as day, 5:33 clearly makes the distinction between Jews and muslims. How do we answer? Let's spam them with hours of long commentaries and opinions and such. Classic muslim apologist tactic.”
Wow, I am in total shock at this moment, there are literally no words I can use to describe this, I’m speechless at this moment, he rejects all my clear sources because they are tafsirs? Wow let’s just burn all books of tafsirs shall we? and heck why not use this logic on the masked Arab, if the verse he was criticizing about the sun sitting in muddy water was so clear why did he use tafsirs?

“their opinions are not as important as main Islamic sources.
And like I do, know for certain that this religion is fake as fuck. I'm confident, so I don't hesitate and see through the bullshit these apologists made. That doesn't mean I don't consider apologists' arguments or I ignorantly follow The Masked Arab or like. No, I just use my logic and always check Quran, hadith and sirah first. That's all”
yes that is correct, let’s use weak tafsirs and weak hadiths and weak narrations from sira to spread our propaganda, this poster clearly makes the argument “listen to me and don’t listen to that apologetic” this is by far the worse response I have ever seen or the worse attempt at debunking any argument either from me or someone else, and I can’t believe that I was the one to be subjected to such torment as reading your “refutation”

Conclusion
This goon started by not understanding what polemicist means
Then later cut my refutation in half to criticize just my damn instruction to the issue
Accuse me of binding Jewish Sabbath to Friday prayer when I never made such a thing, I merely stated that there are similarities and logically pointed them out (10 commandments) and clearly stated that sabbath is not necessarily the same as Friday prayer
Completely forget that I clearly mentioned the word commandments which is in reference to the Ten Commandments
Gives 4 idiotic reasons for his hypotheses including mistranslation what mischief means
Cites verse 5:33 and claim this is exclusive to the muslims even though if we follow his logic nowhere it says “ and so we wrote to the muslims” even if we use his logic this argument falls flat on its face
askes his gang of goons not to read my clear bright as day evidences that verse 5:32 does indeed refers to muslims as well according to several scholars but still so idiotically forget that his own idol used tafsirs on verses that he himself would also label clear as day, so if the verse regarding the sun sits in a muddy water was clear why the masked arab did what I did and cited tafsirs for “a clear verse”?
not to mention all the tarfsirs I cited in my original reply to the masked arab contain hadiths and narrations within it


even though i have no reddit username this makes me obligated to make one.
I’ve said many times in my life “this argument is the worse” ”this argument is so bad” on the internet and on my blog but this, what I just witnessed, the atrocity that I just saw, the flaws that I just saw, the fallacies, the inconsistences, the strawmans the red herrings, just gives me cancer, I just wrote all of this is span of 5 minutes, I don’t even believe this goon deserve more of my attention to him let alone dedicate more of my time to him, if I did dedicate work and time and research into this response I would have just taken apart everything he said piece by piece, but he is not worth my time and effort, I did this just to give time for readers of my blog to spend, so don’t take this as one of my accurate works



[1] https://www.britannica.com/topic/jumah

9 comments:

  1. Salam alaycum salam I feel sorry for the guy you replied to also will you be posting more I have to wait so long for more posts so will be uploading more frequently
    And also have any exmuslims you know cone back to Islam because of your posts

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i'll be posting more inshallah, my work on ben shapiro will be my most comprehensive rebuttal yet stay tuned, and yes some ex muslims contacted me and told me they reverted back to islam

      Delete
    2. I admire your work Salam you're a great man indeed
      May Allah bless you
      Inshallah
      -from A Muslim Brother

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  2. and just to clarify to several people who asked me on discord, i'm no longer quranist

    ReplyDelete
  3. Why I'm not qurAnist but why are you no longer a quRanish. and what is discord and do you post thing on there

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm no longer quranists because I'm not convinced by their methods
      Discord is a voice and chat service similar to Skype I'm there and I was asked if I was quranists

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    2. the arguments are not convincing and seams from an emotional point of view

      Delete