Shari Gaber What you don’t know about Quran, Much ado about nothing part-4

Note:

My apologies for the delay, important family issues, I decided to post Part-4 early due to inactivity in the blog, inshallah part-6 is possible depending on the amount of sources I'm dealing with.

Introduction:

We continue our discussion from part 3, where Sharif was so idiotic making the argument that since there is a Christian figure in the back of a coin and on the other side of it there are Islamic inscriptions, therefore that figure is the prophet, Muhammad, we continue our discussion here and show a simple example of a Byzantine coin that was later edited by Muslims to add their presence

https://fayezthezealot.wordpress.com/

Take a look at how the following coins changed

As you can see several inscriptions were later revamped and changed by adding Islamic inscriptions to it, it’s a way for Muslims to provide evidence of their presence, for more information please see the link cited above

@21:33 Sharif state “all that I want to tell you is that the history you were brought up with and thinking it’s Islamic history, that is not the real history, the real history is very vague”
wait for a second, so you first state the real history is not what we thought but later state it’s vague? make up your mind

Origins of Sharif Fairytales

@22:07sharif state “let’s take for example the story of Adam and Eve, when God created Adam and asked angles to prostrate to him after that Satan refused and said he is created from fire and Adam is created from clay I can’t prostrate to someone who is not the only level, after that the god was upset and exiled him from heaven, these events are not found chronologically in the bible so we can say Quran took it from him (oh goodness as if you will be right either way?) but it’s found the rabbinic literature (citing Louis Ginsberg book of Adam the Jewish encyclopedia a book mentioned by Robert Spencer) this rabbinic literature is not Torah so we can say god might have taken from his own old book, no, it’s a number of man-made legends made by men written before Islam by 300 years, meaning Quran literally took the stories of Adam and even from man-made stories”

So much nonsense with little to no proof, now the first problem we have is his assumption that any Jewish writing outside the bible is man made legends that never happened and the only correct events exist in the bible, if that is true then by the same logic hadith books which describe events outside Quran are also legends that never happened, and now by your logic you just dismissed 90% of all Islamic criticism that originally comes from hadith by logic of “anything outside the holy book is a legend that never happened”

Now it’s true there are legends written in Jewish literature but need to be differentiated from preserved sayings

His source state the following

“ADAM, BOOK OF:

The Talmud says nothing about the existence of a Book of Adam, and Zunz's widely accepted assertion to the contrary ("G. V." 2d ed., p. 136) is erroneous, as appears upon an inspection of the passage in 'Ab. Zarah, 5a, and Gen. R. xxiv. 2. There can be no doubt, however, that there existed at an early date, perhaps even before the destruction of the Second Temple, a collection of legends of Adam and Eve which have been partially preserved, not in their original language, but somewhat changed. It is possible to prove that the apocryphas, ApocalypsisMosis— as Tischendorf, following a copyist's erroneous inscription, called the book—and Vita Adæ et Evæ, and to a certain degree even their Slavonic, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Arabic offshoots are of identical Jewish origin. According to these apocryphal works and to the Eastern and Western forms of the Apocalypsis, the Jewish portion of the Book of Adam must have read somewhat as follows (the parallels in apocryphal and rabbinical literature are placed in parentheses):”

The story Sharif attribute to Quran is the following

“Satan thought the time opportune to carry out his evil designs against Adam. Satan hated Adam, for he regarded him as the cause of his fall. After God had created man, He ordered all the angels to prostrate themselves before Adam, but Satan rebelled against God's command, despite the direct bidding of Michael "to worship the image of YHW" (), and answered proudly: "If God be angry with me, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" (compare Isa. xiv. 13). Whereupon God "cast him out from heaven with all his host of rebellious angels"

I have looked everywhere specifically for that literature couldn’t find one outside of Louis Ginsberg

But I did come close to finding the possible point of origin where the narration of angles asked to prostrate to Adam come from Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer which is an aggadic-Midrashic work on the Torah, it has been passed preserved through generations

AGGADAH or HAGGADAH (Heb. הַגָּדָה, אַגָּדָה; "narrative"), one of the two primary components of rabbinic tradition, the other being Halakhah, usually translated as "Jewish Law" (see: Kadushin, The Rabbinic Mind, 59f.).[1]

The story of Adam in the garden of Eden (the origin of the story of angles prostrating to him) is found there, and it’s one of the most important Jewish tradition as noted above

But forget about the origin of the story, Louis Ginzberg the source of sharif gabir himself composed4 volume books containing all Jewish legends, and do we find the story of angles prostrating to Adam there?

The following link is directed toward his 4 volume books

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/index.htm

there we can trace the legend and find it

the closest we have is the following on chapter “the fall of Satan”
“in spite of the urgent representations of Michael, who was the first to prostrate himself before Adam in order to show a good example to the other angels”

That is His Own source again refuting him, his own author, and nowhere is the story of angles prostrating themselves to Adam and Satan as result is exiled from heaven is found on these 4 massive volumes, how could anyone miss that

Dr.sami ‘Amiri in his book “does Quran borrow from Jewish and Christian texts?”

“Evidence from the old testament of the existence of lost religious texts:

Numbers 21:14 “Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord what He did in the Red Sea and in the brooks of Arnon”

Joshua 10:13 “And the sun stood still and the moon stayed until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hastened not to go down for about a whole day.”[2]

An even Christian evangelist who is responding to the accusations that these are missing books from the bible state the following

هذا كان غالبًا سفرًا شعريًا يمتدح أعمال الله في عنايته بشعبه في البرية. وفي قيادتهم سالمين إلى كنعان، ولا يعرف عنه شيء غير الإشارة المذكورة هنا، وربما كتبه موسى نفسه

“and this is most likely a chapter regarding genesis in regards to how god prises his care to his people, and their leadership from salmin to clean, and nothing is known about it apart from this statement, and maybe Moses wrote it”[3]

Maybe Moses wrote it?

Well that is probably why the bible isn’t perfectly preserved and despite the fact that they admitted that they know nothing about it

Anyways I drifted away from the topic a bit, but what I’m trying to make access is that there are inscriptions that didn’t make it way to the bible, dr.sami ‘Amiri in that chapter dedicate his work to them and cites so many more examples from bible mouth

Now, in conclusion, Sharif and Robert Spence cited Louis Ginzberg as their source for the allegation of Quran borrowing from the Jewish legends, but when absorbed from him directly there is no mention of that story among his 4 volume dedicated books for Jewish legends, leading us to conclude that their source dismiss them

@22:50 Sharif cite the story of people of Sabbath in 2:65 {And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."}  state the following: “the story of the people of sabbath that belong to the jews, the famous story, this story is found in Torah before Quran comes  in before Quran comes in in thousands of years (shows  a screenshot of  the verses in the old testament) in Exodus chapter 16”

ok  let’s see, he states that verse 2:65 of Quran copies Exodus 16, the following Bible verses are provided

“26 Six days you are to gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.”

27 Nevertheless, some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. 28 Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long will you[c] refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the Lord has given you the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.”

So comparing 2:65 of Quran, how does it copies exodus 16: 26-30?

Exudos 16:26-30 talks about the order of the Sabbath? The story in the bible talks about how Moses people broke their Sabbath on the seventh day and gathered bread breaking the Sabbath, Quran 2:65 talks about the inhabitants of Eilat, who broke the Sabbath and gone fishing, how is 2:65 borrowing from Exodus 16:26-30 is beyond me

How stupid you think your audience is sharif to pull such cheap tactic to deceive them?

@23:00 sharif state “or the story of the yellow caw that exists in chapter cow, this is found in the legends of the jews before Islam by hundreds of years”
goodness gracious, it says red heifer not yellow heifer and this is found in numbers in old testament Not Jewish legends?

“Numbers 19 New International Version (NIV) The Water of Cleansing 19 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron: 2 “This is a requirement of the law that the Lord has commanded: Tell the Israelites to bring you a red heifer without defect or blemish and that has never been under a yoke “[4] (from your own screenshot)

how did you even confuse red cow with yellow cow sharif?

Never mind let’s take a look at your early source

Of all of the 4 volumes of The Legends of the Jews By Louis Ginzberg Literally, no chapter nowhere is yellow heifer or a yellow cow

First, you deceive your audience by citing a nonexistent correlation between 2:65 and excludes 16 now you switched red heifer with yellow and claimed numbers a book from the bible contain legends not ordained or inspired by God?

I take that back you are much more insane than I thought the more I dive into your video the more deceptive you appear, especially when you made up a hadith by Sahih Bukhari that doesn’t exist in Sahih Bukhari which we will address in the future when I finish your “video”

@23:10 Sharif state “or the story of Gog and Magog which people think it only exists in Islam only (what people?) this story is mentioned in the old testament and found in Syriac legends books  apart from Jewish legends”

Wait, what? It exists in the bible but also as a Syriac legend? So either the Quran is borrowing from the bible or borrowing from Syriac legends, make up your mind, you can’t have it both ways

Now going back to “or the story of Gog and Magog which people think it only exists in Islam”
no one claimed ever that going and Magog only exist in Islam, care to point an example for that?

So we have here a claim from sharif where he doesn’t provide any evidence for, that Gog and Magog based on people thought only exist in Islam.

Never mind his source is the following “Gog and Magog in Early Eastern Christian and Islamic Sources: Sallam's Quest for Alexander's Wall” it’s found on the page.30 it states the following:
“Very early the vision was rendered into Greek (700-10) and from Greek into Latin (710-20).47 It became one of the most influential apocalyptic texts in Byzantium and in the Mediaeval West, also stimulating many non-apocalyptic writings.48 It is by this widespread transmission of Pseudo-Methodius that the story of Alexander's enclosure of Gog and Magog passed from Syriac into Greek and Latin Occidental literature. In other words: the motif of Alexander's iron gate as found in the Greek and Medieval Western versions of the Alexander Romance was borrowed and inspired by the Greek translation (second recension) of a Syriac text. Thus at the beginning of the 8th century, the Syriac Apocalypse of Pseudo-Metlwdius has become the channel by which the motif of Alexander's barrier against Gog and Magog became known in the East as well as in the West. Some of the later Greek versions of the Alexander Romance”[5]

Ok, now we see, the Wikipedia page (which sharif copied his source from) “The Pseudo-Methodius, written originally in Syriac, is considered the source of Gog and Magog tale incorporated into Western versions of the Alexander Romance”

But if we just read above the story was spread through it’s alteration from Syriac to greek in 710-20 in the 8th century so sharif is telling us Quran is borrowing from a source that was created after Quran was revealed? (I’m getting a TMA Alexander romance Deja vu here, did you Sharif decided to copy TMA and state Quran is borrowing from a source written after it?)

Indeed God and Magog predate Islam and Christianity and exist in the bible but to claim that a source from 8th century as admitted by Sharif own source is the original source for Quran when it was written after Quran? Can anyone take this seriously?

There are two versions of Gog and Magog narrative, one is a legend attributed to Alexander gate which is written (as seen above from Sharif own source) in the 8th century, the normal narrative lacking attribution to Alexander romance legend doesn’t hold the attribute of legend

Don’t take my word for it, take the words of his own source (Wikipedia) which should tell you the integrity of his research

“A legend was attached to Gog and Magog by the time of the Roman period, that the Gates of Alexander were erected by Alexander the Great to repel the tribe. Romanized Jewish historian Josephus knew them as the nation descended from Magog the Japhetite, as in Genesis, and explained them to be the Scythians. In the hands of Early Christian writers, they became apocalyptic hordes, and throughout the Medieval period variously identified as the Huns, Khazars, Mongols, or other nomads, or even the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

The legend of Gog and Magog and the gates were also interpolated into the Alexander romances. In one version, "Goth and Magoth" are kings of the Unclean Nations, driven beyond a mountain pass by Alexander, and blocked from returning by his new wall. Gog and Magog are said to engage in human cannibalism in the romances and derived literature. They have also been depicted on Medieval cosmological maps or Mappa Mundi, sometimes alongside Alexander's wall.”[6]

@23:22 “or the story of Noah and the ship that, That famous legend was mentioned long before the 3 religions took it, The first mention of this story goes back to the year 1600 BC, More than 2200 years before the Islamic religion appears”

His source (which he doesn’t provide any footnote to) states the following “the oldest version the hero-king ziusudra and this version was inscribed around 1600 BCE in the Sumerian city of Nippur”

His source seems to come from this link

https://www.rhymezone.com/r/d=nippur

this source later link Wikipedia (again his source is Wikipedia we all saw how that turned out in god and Magog allegation)
“There are nine known versions of the Mesopotamian flood story, each more or less adapted from an earlier version. In the oldest version, inscribed in the Sumerian city of Nippur c.1600 BCE, the hero is King Ziusudra. This is known as the Sumerian Flood Story and probably derives from an earlier version. The Ziusudra version tells how he builds a boat and rescues life when the gods decide to destroy it. This remains the basic plot for several subsequent flood-stories and heroes, including Noah. Ziusudra's Sumerian name means "He of long life". In Babylonian versions his name is Atrahasis, but the meaning is the same. In the Atrahasis version, the flood is a river flood”[7]

now, fortunately, Wikipedia gives us a source (From Eden to Exile: Unraveling Mysteries of the Bible) but with no page number to verify the claim

for a parallel between epic Gilgamesh story and bible is the following link[8]

however, let’s evaluate his argument while this is probably the only part of his video where he at least provides some historical truth

Premises:

·         the epic of Gilgamesh speaks of a flood parallel to the story of the flood in the genesis

·         the Bible provides a story of the flood that is parallel to the flood on the epic of Gilgamesh

·         the Quran provides the same story

Conclusion: therefore, the Quran is not the word of god

This is the fallacy of Non sequitur

Premises are true on its own, but the conclusion doesn’t follow from them due to no proper inferring between premises and conclusion

@ 23:41 “Or the story of Cain and Abel, when Cain killed his brother Abel and killed him, Then the Quran said, "whoever kills a soul unless for a soul it is as if he had slain mankind entirely.. ..and whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely", The verse which many repeat it and take it as a sign for the mercy of Islam, And some upload it as a Facebook cover and beside it some red hearts, Fact is, the Quran isn't the source to neither the story nor the sentence itself, That sentence and the story were mentioned  in a Jewish book named "Mishnah Sanhedrin", That book was written 400 years before Islam, a Jewish book that talked about the laws that the Israelis should live by, In chapter four that book talks about murder, And says that the Israelis shouldn't kill, especially an innocent person, Because by killing someone, you kill all the people who can be born because of him, And by forgiving him, you'd be saving all the people who will be born because of him, Then he gave the story of Cain and Abel as an example When Cain killed Abel he killed all the people who could've come from him, The story was taken from this book, And the evidence is that in the story of Cain and Abel in the Quran the "Israelis" were mentioned in the middle, Have you ever thought what's the relationship between the Israelis and Cain and Abel?!, You're talking about the story of creation and Cain and Abel, What does the Israelis have to do with any of this?!, The Israelis were mentioned because they're mentioned in that book, Where the advice was meant for the Israelis?, So those who copied that sentence in the Quran translated it and also advised the Israelis, The irony!”

No sharif I don’t see the irony, the irony is that you first misspelled “Mishnah Sanhedrin” (he spelled it Sanhedrian) the book is actually called not Sanhedrin

This is the source for his claim the following link[9]

If we check it out it turns out that the Quranic verse he is talking about is not even found there? Sharif again citing a source that doesn’t validate your claim? The story of Cain and Abel is found in Genesis 4:9-12

“9 And the Lord said unto Cain, “Where is Abel thy brother?” And he said, “I know not. Am I my brother’s keeper?”

10 And He said, “What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto Me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand.

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength. A fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be on the earth.””

So no sharif  based on your saying “That sentence and the story were mentioned  in a Jewish book named "Mishnah Sanhedrin"”

It does exist in the bible not originally in that book

Of course, the book does have that quote, it’s just sharif source doesn’t say so

The problem is that this commentary is false, Mishnah doesn’t say "whoever kills a soul unless for a soul it is as if he had slain mankind entirely, and whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely"

In fact the book specifically stated that the soul here is strict to Israel, using sharif own source of chapter 4 verse 5

The entire text is the following
“כֵּיצַד מְאַיְּמִין אֶת הָעֵדִים עַל עֵדֵי נְפָשׁוֹת, הָיוּ מַכְנִיסִין אוֹתָן וּמְאַיְּמִין עֲלֵיהֶן. שֶׁמָּא תֹאמְרוּ מֵאֹמֶד, וּמִשְּׁמוּעָה, עֵד מִפִּי עֵד וּמִפִּי אָדָם נֶאֱמָן שָׁמַעְנוּ, אוֹ שֶׁמָּא אִי אַתֶּם יוֹדְעִין שֶׁסּוֹפֵנוּ לִבְדֹּק אֶתְכֶם בִּדְרִישָׁה וּבַחֲקִירָה. הֱווּ יוֹדְעִין שֶׁלֹּא כְדִינֵי מָמוֹנוֹת דִּינֵי נְפָשׁוֹת. דִּינֵי מָמוֹנוֹת, אָדָם נוֹתֵן מָמוֹן וּמִתְכַּפֵּר לוֹ. דִּינֵי נְפָשׁוֹת, דָּמוֹ וְדַם זַרְעִיּוֹתָיו תְּלוּיִין בּוֹ עַד סוֹף הָעוֹלָם, שֶׁכֵּן מָצִינוּ בְקַיִן שֶׁהָרַג אֶת אָחִיו, שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר (בראשית ד) דְּמֵי אָחִיךָ צֹעֲקִים, אֵינוֹ אוֹמֵר דַּם אָחִיךָ אֶלָּא דְּמֵי אָחִיךָ, דָּמוֹ וְדַם זַרְעִיּוֹתָיו. דָּבָר אַחֵר, דְּמֵי אָחִיךָ, שֶׁהָיָה דָמוֹ מֻשְׁלָךְ עַל הָעֵצִים וְעַל הָאֲבָנִים. לְפִיכָךְ נִבְרָא אָדָם יְחִידִי, לְלַמֶּדְךָ, שֶׁכָּל הַמְאַבֵּד נֶפֶשׁ אַחַת מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל, מַעֲלֶה עָלָיו הַכָּתוּב כְּאִלּוּ אִבֵּד עוֹלָם מָלֵא. וְכָל הַמְקַיֵּם נֶפֶשׁ אַחַת מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל, מַעֲלֶה עָלָיו הַכָּתוּב כְּאִלּוּ קִיֵּם עוֹלָם מָלֵא. וּמִפְּנֵי שְׁלוֹם הַבְּרִיּוֹת, שֶׁלֹּא יֹאמַר אָדָם לַחֲבֵרוֹ אַבָּא גָדוֹל מֵאָבִיךָ. וְשֶׁלֹּא יְהוּ מִינִין אוֹמְרִים, הַרְבֵּה רָשֻׁיּוֹת בַּשָּׁמָיִם. וּלְהַגִּיד גְּדֻלָּתוֹ שֶׁל הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא, שֶׁאָדָם טוֹבֵעַ כַּמָּה מַטְבְּעוֹת בְּחוֹתָם אֶחָד וְכֻלָּן דּוֹמִין זֶה לָזֶה, וּמֶלֶךְ מַלְכֵי הַמְּלָכִים הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא טָבַע כָּל אָדָם בְּחוֹתָמוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם הָרִאשׁוֹן וְאֵין אֶחָד מֵהֶן דּוֹמֶה לַחֲבֵרוֹ. לְפִיכָךְ כָּל אֶחָד וְאֶחָד חַיָּב לוֹמַר, בִּשְׁבִילִי נִבְרָא הָעוֹלָם. וְשֶׁמָּא תֹאמְרוּ מַה לָּנוּ וְלַצָּרָה הַזֹּאת, וַהֲלֹא כְבָר נֶאֱמַר (ויקרא ה) וְהוּא עֵד אוֹ רָאָה אוֹ יָדָע אִם לוֹא יַגִּיד וְגוֹ'. וְשֶׁמָּא תֹאמְרוּ מַה לָּנוּ לָחוּב בְּדָמוֹ שֶׁל זֶה, וַהֲלֹא כְבָר נֶאֱמַר (משלי יא) וּבַאֲבֹד רְשָׁעִים רִנָּה:”

Focus on this part

The problem is that the source Sharif provided is a mistranslation if you check verse 5 which where the alleged borrowing exists, the following text in Hebrew מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל translate to “from Israel” but the deceptive translation (probably deceptive) of the website he cited doesn’t say that anywhere, instead, it says

“to teach you that anyone who destroys a life is considered by Scripture to have destroyed an entire world”

Which is the false translation of Abraham Geiger

Abraham Geiger was the first one to come up with this allegation and he mistranslated the Hebrew text to make it align with Quran[10]

While Abraham Geiger was the first he later admitted that this allegation has no longer any importance[11]

So in conclusion, Abraham Geiger falsely translated the text to make it parallel to Quran, and was later published and made popular to social media, but when comparing the original text to English the text doesn’t bear direct resemblance to the verse

End of Part-4

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[1]https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/aggadah-or-haggadah-jewish-virtual-library

[2]does Quran borrow from Jewish and Christian texts page.244

[3] The center for Christian printings – bible commentary vol.1 page.389

[4] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+19&version=NIV

[5] Gog and Magog in Early Eastern Christian and Islamic Sources: Sallam's Quest for Alexander's Wall page.30

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog

[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah%27s_Ark

[8] http://public.iastate.edu/~gbetcher/353/gilgfld.htm

[9] https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Sanhedrin.4.5?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en

[10] Did Quran borrow from books of Jews and Christians (Arabic book) by doctor Sami ‘amiri page.186

[11] Ibid page.184